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msdesign

New Member

Posts: 4

Location: USA

1

Tuesday, October 12th 2004, 10:58am

Need advice on a bad installation

I just had a system put in yesterday and I am fuming today. I had about seven quotes to install a system to water appox. 21,000sqft along with some sprayers for the beds around the house. The quotes ranged from 2,500 to 6,800 with the majority around the 3,500 - 3,800 range. I asked for I20 rotors, RB pop-ups, and a RB-LXi 12 zone controller. I was told that it would be a 9-10 zone system with about 40 heads and 10 sprayers. The company I picked said that they would do the job for 3,350 and had good references.

Well, I checked it out last night and they totally ignored the far side of my driveway, only put in 30 rotors total and no sprayers. I don't think they are space correctly and areas of my lawn are not even getting water on it and the beds have been overlooked, not to mention they only put in a 8 zone controller and only ended up putting 5 zones on the system. And on top of that, the fittings on the inside of my house and where it connects to the backflow valve are dripping. I have already call to complain, but he won't be back till tomorrow - I am steaming....

How many rotors can you put on a zone if my water pressure is 55 at the spigot and my well pump is 1hp delivering 18gal per min? I ask this because the spray coming from the heads that are working (some are not)are only arching out about 15 feet or less. It looks like he put 5-6 heads on a zone. Do you think he will need to rip up all of the buried pipe to configure the space properly, because I think he will need to install some more zones to make up for the areas of the lawn that are not covered?

Sorry to be rambling --- I'm just PO'd. Any advice you can give will be helpful. thanks
Thanks,
Mike S

BTanner

Senior Member

Posts: 21

Location: USA

2

Wednesday, October 13th 2004, 2:16am

[:(]Sorry you're having such a bad experience, it shouldn't have to be that way!! First off, on a well and pump system, the design psi. and flow needs to be measured at the supply point (where the mainline accually connects to the water line before the backflow preventer). Secondly, you need to know the psi drop in all of the components within the zone (backflow, valve, piping). Third, what is the desired distance for each head to be suppling water (which will demand a min. psi and gpm at the head for proper coverage based on distance between heads, this info will be provided by the manuf. of the head)

Please provide this info, maybe your system can be salvaged. About you not getting what was agreed on, hope you got a contract with the contractor.

drpete3

Supreme Member

Posts: 375

Location: USA

3

Wednesday, October 13th 2004, 8:32am

Hang in there hopefully everything will get taken care of when you talk to your installer. After you talk to him feel free to run it by us what he has to say esp if it doesnt sound right.
Thanks,

Pete

bgeddes

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: USA

4

Wednesday, October 13th 2004, 9:43am

15 ft or less for the rotors?

Did you have the dishwasher or washing machine running when you performed your test?

If a given zone is consuming around 17-18 GPM (quite reasonable if PSI drop is minimal and 6 rotors with 3.0 nozzles are used), any water appliance running at the same time as your sprinklers will reduce the flow.

msdesign

New Member

Posts: 4

Location: USA

5

Wednesday, October 13th 2004, 8:27pm

No appliances running during the test and I'm not sure about the pressure at the supply point. Been looking for the info on psi drops for all of the components, but I don't think the components are the cause of the low pressure. I had a system in place before I had my yard excavated and enlarged, but most of it was ripped up in the process and I didn't have problems with that system - other than it used old style impact heads. They moved the supply line from before my holding take to after my holding tank and ph balancer tank. Thinking that may have something to do with it. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Mike S

bgeddes

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: USA

6

Thursday, October 14th 2004, 11:54pm

The holding tank won't have a negative effect on the pressure.
I'm not sure about the PH balancer tank.

Here are some other toughts:

* Leak (or clog) in the mainline and/or lateral(s)

* Too much GPM (reduces pressure on pump systems)
- try replacing nozzles that consume less GPM

* They ran 1/2" pipe (or 3/4" with very long distances).

* I-20 flow was reduced
- check flow control on top of rotor.

BTanner

Senior Member

Posts: 21

Location: USA

7

Saturday, October 16th 2004, 2:50am

Are you using a pumpstart relay to start the pump, or just using the holding tank psi and letting the psi switch operate the pump?

msdesign

New Member

Posts: 4

Location: USA

8

Tuesday, October 19th 2004, 4:11am

Letting the psi switch operate the pump
Thanks,
Mike S

BTanner

Senior Member

Posts: 21

Location: USA

9

Tuesday, October 19th 2004, 2:47pm

begeddes is makes a good point, if your flowing more water than your pump is suppling you're certain to loose psi. Check on the gpm rating of each zone.

By using the psi switch to start the pump, you probably have a 40-60 switch (on 40psi off 60psi). Which means your system depletes the psi to 40psi before ever calling for the pump to start, meaning that if you flowing 16-18 gpm it's hard to recover that psi. Your system <b></b>Will Not Work Without Pressure, nor can your system produce more than 60psi at tank (not saying you want it to, could damage pump). But as the saying goes psi comes from HP not pump size.

About psi loss in components;
backflow approx. 5-10 depending on size and type
control valve approx. 3-7 depending on size and type
piping ??? depends on length and material

So now your down to approx. 43-52psi. not including psi drop for piping. I know this probably doesn't make alot of sense, but if you'll visit

www.irrigationtutorial.com it'll shed alot of light on a pump system and even give you a lesson on hydralics. It's hard to troubleshoot you problem without knowing all of the varibles;
Design psi and flow
zone gpm
psi loss

Also, if your heads are the type that can be shut off, try shutting off one by one and see if it helps.

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