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Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,021

Location: Metro NYC

21

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 3:48pm

New York is kind of wack. They would probably work in a tri-state grouping with Connecticut and New Jersey, if New York City didn't make it all but impossible to have one overall building code. The best advice is to trust nothing you read on the internet, or hear from a public employee. Go to your own public library and read for yourself from code books and ordinances and statutes. If you got an angry look from some town official when you ask for the actual ordinance/code/statute number that applies, tell them that you need it for insurance purposes.

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anyone here who believes their own opinions or skills or knowledge is a better bet than gravity.......... ~ well, they should stop smoking their own press clippings

secutanudu

Active Member

Posts: 36

Location: Guilderland, NY (Near Albany)

22

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 4:47pm

My apologies for not including my location initially. I post on enough DIY boards to know how important that is.

My town requires a DCVA - I saw it in the town code with my own eyes:
http://www.ecode360.com/?custId=GU1600
"Nonhazardous substance. At the service connection to any premises a substance that would be objectionable is handled so as to constitute a cross-connection, the Town water supply shall be protected by an approved double check valve assembly."

This, of course, assumes that a lawn sprinkler system is considered nonhazardous. I believe it is, because later in the document it explicitly prohibits the use of fertilizers or any hazardous substance in a lawn sprinkler system. Also, when I called the town and asked, they clearly told me to use a DCVA. I can't find the definition of a "hazardous substance" in the code anywhere. Even under the definition section!

In my parents' town, I couldn't find anything about backflow prevention (or sprinkler systems, for that matter). Here is the stony point town code, as if anyone is interested! :D :D :D

http://www.ecode360.com/?custId=ST0120

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "secutanudu" (Jul 6th 2010, 4:53pm)


Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,021

Location: Metro NYC

23

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 5:04pm

Your link doesn't work on this website. Besides, when you want to cite a written requirement, you include chapter and verse, and not the entire volume. For all we know, this is yet another case of the code for fire sprinkler systems, which does require a DCVA, being read as a requirement for lawn sprinklers.

secutanudu

Active Member

Posts: 36

Location: Guilderland, NY (Near Albany)

24

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 8:30pm

Your link doesn't work on this website. Besides, when you want to cite a written requirement, you include chapter and verse, and not the entire volume. For all we know, this is yet another case of the code for fire sprinkler systems, which does require a DCVA, being read as a requirement for lawn sprinklers.
Not sure why the link didn't work.

Is there any way I can test a backflow preventer myself? i see and have read the instructions on the watts website for their test kits, seems pretty straightforward. I know i'm not certified, but it'd be nice to at least know how to test myself in addition to getting an occasional certified inspection.

Maybe the only thing preventing me is the high cost of the test kits.

mrfixit

Moderator

Posts: 1,450

Location: USA

25

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 8:50pm

Take the http:// off of the link and it'll work on this site.

www.ecode360.com/?custId=GU1600

www.ecode360.com/?custId=ST0120

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,021

Location: Metro NYC

26

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 8:53pm

It's a flaw of this website, probably. Anyway, I got there by copying and pasting the address. Did a search for "lawn sprinkler" with the quotes. Nothing resulted. Tried "Irrigation" and got nothing about plumbing, but got one page about not polluting the rivers with runoff from your irrigation practices. There does not have to be anything in any NY building code about lawn sprinkler plumbing, because the state Board of Health got there first, and laid out the rules, and they are as approving of all the four basic backflow preventers, the three mentioned so far in this thread, and also the humble vacuum breaker, or antisyphon valve.

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Unless you find an actual ordinance that requires a DCVA in lawn sprinkler plumbing, and you are taking nobody's word on this, upgrade to a PVB, with at least 12 inches of clearance from the bottom of the PVB assembly (I would add an extra foot of clearance) to the highest head or spray or downstream pipe in the system.

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And trust me, a PVB is an upgrade from the DCVA, especially in a state that is lax about requiring annual device testing. You can always sell the old DCVA on eBay.

secutanudu

Active Member

Posts: 36

Location: Guilderland, NY (Near Albany)

27

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 8:59pm

And trust me, a PVB is an upgrade from the DCVA, especially in a state that is lax about requiring annual device testing. You can always sell the old DCVA on eBay.
What about for my parents? Their house is in the middle of a hill....I guess an RPZ would be the way to go there.

My house is on a flat piece or property. I guess I could loop up a foot or two, install a PVB, then back down into the valve box. This would lead to my PVB being outside, which i guess is good, since it could potentially leak.

Do backflow preventers for a sprinkler system need to be lead free? I see watts has LF models.

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,021

Location: Metro NYC

28

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 9:12pm

If no one is going to be testing the devices, a DCVA is the last thing you want to have. They can and will stick open. Especially the older Febco 805Y, the most popular model in the Long Island area. If you had one of those, I would replace it without hesitation. Whether an RPZ can substitute, is a matter of accepting its above-ground installation, and also accepting the additional pressure loss it creates.

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Lead-Free is for California

secutanudu

Active Member

Posts: 36

Location: Guilderland, NY (Near Albany)

29

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 9:16pm

If no one is going to be testing the devices, a DCVA is the last thing you want to have. They can and will stick open. Especially the older Febco 805Y, the most popular model in the Long Island area. If you had one of those, I would replace it without hesitation. Whether an RPZ can substitute, is a matter of accepting its above-ground installation, and also accepting the additional pressure loss it creates.

I talked to my dad about his DCVA (A Watts 007). He will have it tested once a year.

One more question...for now...if I install a blowout port downstream of a PVB (for my house)...does that work? OR do I need a valve between the backflow and the blowout port to prevent air from leaking out, preventing the blowout from working properly?

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,021

Location: Metro NYC

30

Tuesday, July 6th 2010, 9:30pm

I still like the old-fashioned method of having the system blowout serve as the outdoor low-point drain, with the system plumbing exiting the basement above grade. That means you are winterizing through the PVB, which is not a thing that manufacturers love, but the devices survive the insult, especially if you are using your own small compressor for the task. Having an old-style jackhammer compressor running boiling-hot air through a PVB for many minutes could be another matter altogether.

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