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My Dream

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: Niagara Falls NY.

1

Sunday, December 9th 2012, 2:09pm

Confused on Pro Irrigation Designs.

I've received the design from Rainbird and Toro and wanted to compare and get a material lists based on the best of both. After reviewing both, I'm confused as to why both are totally different. I understand that there are more then one way to irrigate a lawn but I'm baffled as to why they are so different and I'll give examples.

Why would you go from a 3/4" rough in supply line to 1" mainline only to go to 1/2" sprinkler head and the other stay at 3/4" main line from 3/4" rough in.
Why would one design have two drip irrigation valves and the other state more can be added to the one drip irrigation valve which was suggested?
Why is one going all spray and the other including rotors?
Why is one using flow stream emitters and the other drip line only.
One is suggesting all 4" pop ups, the other 5",6" & 12".

This just keeps going on throughout both designs and there is very little that is common between the two. If Rainbird felt 5 zones were enough why would Toro suggest 6?

When I received the Rainbird's design I started making up my order list and had 3/4 complete since I wanted to upgrade from residential to pro material. Now that I received the Toro design, I have to wonder (since I'm not a pro) which is more cost and design effective? Also both got identical dimensional drawings so they based there design with the exact same info.

Is this common, if so then it's hard to compare apples to apples, and keep in mind, I didn't think they would be exactly the same, but was surprised at just how different they are.

Help understanding this would help so I can continue with my order list.

My Dream

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: Niagara Falls NY.

2

Monday, December 10th 2012, 3:05pm

Can anyone shed some light on any of the discrepancies, for e.g. why would you go from a 3/4" rough in supply line to 1" valve/mainline only to
go to 1/2" sprinkler head and the other Toro stay at 3/4" valve/main line from
3/4" rough in?

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,050

Location: Metro NYC

3

Monday, December 10th 2012, 5:40pm

May be that nothing you express concern about is worth said concern. Sizes of pipes and fittings and valves affect pressure losses, and pressure losses depend on the amount of flow. (and the amount of flow is a detail you haven't shared yet)

Worry about what matters. Sprinkler heads, valves, and controller.

My Dream

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: Niagara Falls NY.

4

Tuesday, December 11th 2012, 8:47am

This is what confuses me, "Sizes of pipes and fittings and valves affect pressure losses, and pressure losses depend on the amount of flow.", if you have two different designs based on the exact same amount of flow, why change the size of mainline pipe, fitting, valves, etc, since as you say it affects pressure loss.

This was based on 60 psi at 14 gpm.

Rainbird;

5 zones with one being drip irrigation,
all 4" pop ups with drip irrigation being all drip-line.

Toro

6 zones with 2 being drip irrigation mixed in with lawn.
62 heads, 5', 8", 12" both pop ups and rotor.
Drip Irrigation has both adjustable flow stream emitters, flow bubblers, hose emitters.

In conclusion, I believe I'll just place a partial order this afternoon based on what I'm sure about.

Thanks for your help Wet_Boots and I apologize for my tone due to my frustration.

wsommariva

Supreme Member

Posts: 332

Location: Northern New Jersey

5

Tuesday, December 11th 2012, 11:31am

Hunter has an excellent DIY manual. Check it out and you learn some more. I installed my own system in two phases and learned a lot along the way. I recommend using the Hunter DIY manual and buying Hunter products. Hunter has excellent customer service. Toro is not great in my experience.

I also got the Toro and RB free designs. I made major changes to them once I got out and started laying it out.

I would recommend Hunter and Rainbird products, which are rated highly here. I used Toro and Hunter.

Sprinkler heads, valves and controller as Wet Boots says. I have 3/4" water service. I used 1" from the water main to 1" valves to 1" laterals that go to the sprinklers. I could have used 3/4" but 1" is probably better.

If you have all flat wide open land that's one thing, maybe you can use all rotors. If you have hilly land, tight spaces, flower beds, etc you may need a combination of rotors, sprays, etc. I used no drip in my beds. Just used sprays with proper watering time.

Pressure loss is very important. Hunter DIY sort of takes that out of the equation using average homeowner losses.

We need to know where you live to help properly. Also what's your psi and flow rates? - If it's 60 psi and 14 gpm you are very lucky as it's much greater than what I had to work with.

My Dream

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: Niagara Falls NY.

6

Tuesday, December 11th 2012, 9:25pm

Thanks for the reply wsommariva;

I placed a partial order today with the exception of the drip irrigatio which seems to be where the most discrepency is. I'll try to make some more progress tomorrow.

To answer a couple of your questions;

Location Niagara Falls NY.

Most will be Rainbird, what SW doesn't have in Rainbird I'll have to find a substitute which most likely will be Hunter.

Land is flat 2.5 degree grade, but not wide open.

I'm at 60psi with 14 gpm.

I'm going to stick with 4 zones for standard irrigation and one for drip, since it's a small lot with 42 heads, not including drip.

Thanks

wsommariva

Supreme Member

Posts: 332

Location: Northern New Jersey

7

Wednesday, December 12th 2012, 8:20am

4 zones with 42 heads? That's 10 per zone, sounds very high. My max is 5 heads per zone although I have lower psi and gpm.

Each head has a gpm usage. If a rotor has a 2.0 gpm rating you can use 7 heads for 14 total. Use 6 to be safe.

Head to head is an important term. Seems overkill and maybe it is in certain instances, but the pros will always design head to head coverage as will the RB and Toro programs. They are responsible for creating/installing a design that leaves no dry spots. Since you are the homeowner you can do what you want.

Also if they claim a 20 foot throw, use 18 to be safe.

Don't cover your trenches until you have tested for leaks and coverage.

Leave extra capacity - maybe consider 6 zones.

I guess you will use poly tubing since you are in upstate NY.

Use swing joints between poly and sprinkler bodies.

For backflow protection use a PVB - Watts or Febco preferred on this site.

Provide for a tee to allow you to blow out in the Fall. Between the PVB and the valves.

My Dream

Senior Member

Posts: 16

Location: Niagara Falls NY.

8

Wednesday, December 12th 2012, 8:52am

Thanks again for the reply wsommariva;

Let me recap and by the way, Rainbird did not suggest any Rotors based on the maximum throw being around 23 ft.

I've done head to head.

Reduce throw rating by around 10%,

Check for leaks before filling in trenches.

Consider an extra zone.

Use poly rather then pvc based on freezing tempertures in my area.

Purchase swing joints for every sprayer.

Use a PVB preferably Watts or Febco listin on SW.

Purchase shut off valve for winter blowout between backflow and valve.

Question:

I noticed the swing joint has a male fitting, what adaptor/fitting is needed to screw into the 1" lateral poly line? I guess I'll need one for every swing joint?

wsommariva

Supreme Member

Posts: 332

Location: Northern New Jersey

9

Wednesday, December 12th 2012, 9:56am

Go to the poly section in Lowes or Home Depot. They will have the adapters you need. Yes one adapter for each SJ. Always buy extra parts when you go to Lowes/HD. When project is done return the extras.

wsommariva

Supreme Member

Posts: 332

Location: Northern New Jersey

10

Wednesday, December 12th 2012, 10:00am

You mentioned buying manifolds? That's no fun, make your own.

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