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HooKooDooKu

Supreme Member

11

Sunday, September 13th 2009, 12:50am

You won't regret taking the precaution, if for no other reason than for being a step ahead of regulations, and not having to rework the system later on.


If you are on your own pump/well with non-drinkable water, why bother with a backflow?...The "down the road is BS". They cannot make you add something to it after the fact..Called grandfathered in..

Codes, are great if you follow them...They are they for people that do not get it.


I'm afraid that there is no Constitutional Ammendment that prohibits a jurisdiction from imposing new building codes on existing systems.

Now I'll admit that MOST jurisdictions will usually pass codes and laws and include a grandfather clause. But nothing says they have to include that clause if they don't want to. After all, I'm sure there is SOME reason why my home owner's insurance includes a specific line item for covering the cost of changes to the structure of my house as mandated by future laws.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "HooKooDooKu" (Sep 13th 2009, 12:55am)


Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,053

Location: Metro NYC

12

Sunday, September 13th 2009, 6:36am

You won't regret taking the precaution, if for no other reason than for being a step ahead of regulations, and not having to rework the system later on.


If you are on your own pump/well with non-drinkable water, why bother with a backflow?...The "down the road is BS". They cannot make you add something to it after the fact..Called grandfathered in..

Codes, are great if you follow them...They are they for people that do not get it.
I believe you will not find "grandfathering in" as one of your constitutional rights. It is a legal fact that the water is the property of the state, and they get to require its protection as they see fit. And code changes do get made as regards water safety, and there is no question that old sprinkler systems don't get grandfathered in, unless there was a specific mention of it.

debo

Active Member

13

Sunday, September 13th 2009, 12:28pm





You won't regret taking the precaution, if for no other reason than for being a step ahead of regulations, and not having to rework the system later on.


If you are on your own pump/well with non-drinkable water, why bother with a backflow?...The "down the road is BS". They cannot make you add something to it after the fact..Called grandfathered in..

Codes, are great if you follow them...They are they for people that do not get it.
I believe you will not find "grandfathering in" as one of your constitutional rights. It is a legal fact that the water is the property of the state, and they get to require its protection as they see fit. And code changes do get made as regards water safety, and there is no question that old sprinkler systems don't get grandfathered in, unless there was a specific mention of it.

My point was that if he is on HIS own water (aka well), do what you want..If on city water, you would need a backflow by code. Again codes are great IF they are enforced; most times zero.

With states etc needing money, I will bet they will try to follow the rules on the books...

HooKooDooKu

Supreme Member

14

Monday, September 14th 2009, 12:56am


My point was that if he is on HIS own water (aka well), do what you want..If on city water, you would need a backflow by code. Again codes are great IF they are enforced; most times zero.

With states etc needing money, I will bet they will try to follow the rules on the books...


Just because someone is on a well doesn't exempt them from following building codes. You still have to consider the fact that it is a piece of realestate that one day will likely be put up for sale to the general public. So even when you do something to your house that is disconnected from everyone else, one day anything done to the house becomes a matter of public safety. Maybe not today, and maybe not until the day the current owner dies. But some day, it will.

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,053

Location: Metro NYC

15

Monday, September 14th 2009, 1:51pm





You won't regret taking the precaution, if for no other reason than for being a step ahead of regulations, and not having to rework the system later on.


If you are on your own pump/well with non-drinkable water, why bother with a backflow?...The "down the road is BS". They cannot make you add something to it after the fact..Called grandfathered in..

Codes, are great if you follow them...They are they for people that do not get it.
I believe you will not find "grandfathering in" as one of your constitutional rights. It is a legal fact that the water is the property of the state, and they get to require its protection as they see fit. And code changes do get made as regards water safety, and there is no question that old sprinkler systems don't get grandfathered in, unless there was a specific mention of it.

My point was that if he is on HIS own water (aka well), do what you want..If on city water, you would need a backflow by code. Again codes are great IF they are enforced; most times zero.

With states etc needing money, I will bet they will try to follow the rules on the books...
As long as you employ wording like "HIS own water" it is very clear that you do not comprehend the laws regarding water supplies. Be it well or pond or creek, it is never "your water" ~ all the water in and on the ground belongs to the state. This has been an established fact of our laws for generations. It doesn't take any great leap of imagination to understand why. Say the richest man on the hilltop estate drills a well deeper than any for miles and miles around, and a drought begins to lower the water tables. The rich guy does not possess any legal basis upon which to draw as much water as he might want from his well, once he is instructed by state authorities to quit being a hog.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`
If you want to understand how things can turn out when the concept of "It's my water and I will do as I wish with it" can turn out, just read about the Johnstown Flood.

debo

Active Member

16

Monday, September 14th 2009, 3:41pm


As long as you employ wording like "HIS own water" it is very clear that you do not comprehend the laws regarding water supplies. Be it well or pond or creek, it is never "your water" ~ all the water in and on the ground belongs to the state. This has been an established fact of our laws for generations. It doesn't take any great leap of imagination to understand why. Say the richest man on the hilltop estate drills a well deeper than any for miles and miles around, and a drought begins to lower the water tables. The rich guy does not possess any legal basis upon which to draw as much water as he might want from his well, once he is instructed by state authorities to quit being a hog.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`
If you want to understand how things can turn out when the concept of "It's my water and I will do as I wish with it" can turn out, just read about the Johnstown Flood.


In the other state I live, you do NOT NEED a backflow and that is also in CT, IF only used for lawns. And that IS per code..So do not post like you know all since in this situation, you lack. That is again why I said if not city water, you can do what you want.

It also depends on your location, my MA city "The Water Division also recommends backflow protection for private wells". Does not say you MUST have one.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "debo" (Sep 14th 2009, 4:18pm)


HooKooDooKu

Supreme Member

17

Wednesday, September 16th 2009, 8:47am



In the other state I live, you do NOT NEED a backflow and that is also in CT, IF only used for lawns. And that IS per code..So do not post like you know all since in this situation, you lack. That is again why I said if not city water, you can do what you want.

It also depends on your location, my MA city "The Water Division also recommends backflow protection for private wells". Does not say you MUST have one.


You are correct that code requirements vary from place to place. Some areas have no backflow requirements, others are so strickt as to dictate part number required and insist it be installed by a certified plumber.

So local codes aside, so long as you are following the minimum required by local codes, you are good.

But the other part of the discussion is what is the "smart" thing to do. Given that uniform code books (plumbing, electrical, etc) have been put together by people familier with the industry, they've seen the various ways things can go wrong, and they've written codes to prevent most problems (including things to prevent that one-in-a-million thing from going wrong, but given that there are about 300 million people in the U.S., that means that one-in-a-million event is going to happen to 300 people). So it would be best advised to at least follow the uniform plumbing code at a minimum if local codes do not require more. Those code books say you need a back flow preventer if there is any cross connect to water supply for house-hold use. Therefore unless you have a dedicated well that exclusively feeds irrigation, you need a backflow preventer.

So to go complete full circle to the original question... is a check valve a back-flow preventer... the answer is no. A simple check valve has too many failure modes to qualify as a back-flow preventer. So bottom line, either have a dedicated well or buy a REAL backflow preventor.

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,053

Location: Metro NYC

18

Wednesday, September 16th 2009, 6:50pm


As long as you employ wording like "HIS own water" it is very clear that you do not comprehend the laws regarding water supplies. Be it well or pond or creek, it is never "your water" ~ all the water in and on the ground belongs to the state. This has been an established fact of our laws for generations. It doesn't take any great leap of imagination to understand why. Say the richest man on the hilltop estate drills a well deeper than any for miles and miles around, and a drought begins to lower the water tables. The rich guy does not possess any legal basis upon which to draw as much water as he might want from his well, once he is instructed by state authorities to quit being a hog.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`
If you want to understand how things can turn out when the concept of "It's my water and I will do as I wish with it" can turn out, just read about the Johnstown Flood.


In the other state I live, you do NOT NEED a backflow and that is also in CT, IF only used for lawns. And that IS per code..So do not post like you know all since in this situation, you lack. That is again why I said if not city water, you can do what you want.

It also depends on your location, my MA city "The Water Division also recommends backflow protection for private wells". Does not say you MUST have one.
And what location did the Original Poster provide, for you to pronounce judgement on what is what. Today's non-existent regulations can become tomorrow's iron-clad requirements, and when it comes to water supplies, the powers that be can be entirely remorseless in using their enforcement powers to get what they want. Homes can be condemned over lack of backflow prevention, and it's all legal and proper. Why not spend a few bucks, and head them off at the pass? That the system won't have to be reworked after some remedial plumbing is a nice bonus.

debo

Active Member

19

Thursday, September 24th 2009, 3:13pm

casue I wanted


And what location did the Original Poster provide, for you to pronounce judgement on what is what. Today's non-existent regulations can become tomorrow's iron-clad requirements, and when it comes to water supplies, the powers that be can be entirely remorseless in using their enforcement powers to get what they want. Homes can be condemned over lack of backflow prevention, and it's all legal and proper. Why not spend a few bucks, and head them off at the pass? That the system won't have to be reworked after some remedial plumbing is a nice bonus.

And the OP never stated location. Your scare deal is not the normal and most times not gonna happen. Most would be a fine (if that) and the permit app. But based on your post, what if the world ended tomorrow is not real world. Spending a few bucks might or might not be worth it.

If it is legal today do not have to worry, they cannot get your tomorrow based on current laws (if that is their case). Example, I have a garage with 10 feet of my prop line. By today codes (2009) it cannot happen like this. Do I need to worry about 20 years down the road, NO...I suggest you go back to lawnsite and pimp over there.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "debo" (Sep 25th 2009, 7:43pm)


20

Monday, November 2nd 2009, 9:08pm

There is no such thing as "grandfathered" backflow preventors. If you are on a municipal water system and you dont have the required backflow preventor they like, you lose. So put in a good quality backlflow that will meet current codes.



Whats going to happen when your the pressure switch on the pump hangs open, and your newly installed fertilizer injector (or whatever other sort of stuff is on your system or in your lawn) starts getting pumped back into the well. Then, your neighbor whos well is 30 feet away and uses it to drink with gets your contaminated water. When your neighbors kid gets sick, you better have a good Attorney.



These things are required for a reason. They are usually not needed until more than one thing goes wrong at once.
Irrigation Contractor Since 1997

Licensed Irrigator, Licensed Backflow Tester
sprinkler system austin

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